The Total case was just a smoke, but the real cause of the divorce between Thierno Alassane Salli and Macky Salli is in the Petrotim case. Former Energy Minister revealed this in an interview with "Les Echos". An interview where he returned largely in both cases when the heads of state took the matter. Regretting the current administration of the country, the former apologist says we are far from the starting point, such as "dekkal Ngor", "home country before the game". Worse, he states that if Wade's administration was done at a traditional pace, Macky Sall moves at an industrial pace. First part of the interview with plenty of notifications …
Thierno Alassane Sall : Today we consider that political commitment in Senegal is not usually based on intangible universal values that go beyond human and political uncertainty and are only intended for the highest interest of the nation and their long historical significance. That is why we believe that our biggest failure is not the absence of programs and political views, but rather the acceptance of all, all accepted and certain things can not be accepted, and that certain defects are unacceptable in the republic.
But have you always defended it?
It has always been our religion. Remember, when we spoke about the KHT, we mainly spoke about "dekkal Ngor", "the patriot before the party", breaking in relation to the basic elements. There is nothing new under the sun. And in reality, there is nothing new. The great democracies of the world have a special feature that the values are not written in their charters and in their minds, but that form red lines that must not be exceeded. And when we press people to go beyond these unrecognized honor values, they divide. This is not new, it is from the beginning of the Greek democracy. People have committed suicide far less than what we see in our states. In this respect, our country is underdeveloped.
That's why motivated resigned?
Much of it, yes. We went to April with enthusiasm. We believed in these great ideals of fracturing, democracy, deckal, and the reform of the earth. Unfortunately, in practice, from the beginning, we have understood a realistic, Senegalese and African version, consisting of shots of the constitution, government wealth and the use of public service by some people in verbal practices. just stay in power, without shame, without any kind of human dignity and personality. Things that the gentleman did not do. All this report was soon enough to us. That's why I came out of the government. Immediately after that, I joined my assignment Achena to mark the Sabbath Year and to show that I am not a politician in the sense that we give it.
And what explained your recovery to the government?
The first time I went to the april, it was not because it was the ideal option. You need to learn about compromises, be flexible. Contrary to what people often accuse me, they have a lot of flexibility and understanding in relation to a particular situation. Apr was not my heart essentially. Because I am, I basically left-wing man. But I also understand that life is made of kind of tolerance, patience, so that we can gradually achieve the ideal we are looking for.
So the compromise had been restored to the government?
I went back to the government when I thought that nothing was too late and that we could still save the essentials. I still had the illusion that some comrades were able to pull themselves together. I also think that the President of the Republic, because we had disagreed between the differences and the nature of certain things, would realize that Luon is being bathed and that he is on his side too, there are things that he would accept more easily. Maybe he had a similar reading to me that the surpassing of the desert would lead me to be more flexible and more responsive. I think there is a fundamental imbalance in this regard. Since in the first few months I had to understand that things did not change fundamentally in the sense that the government's policy was still drifting.
Do not you think that you sometimes try to change things inside?
But, curious, many captured me the most radical, because I had gone too far to the government. Life is made of valuations, but especially red lines that can not be exceeded. We must understand that in the Republic, the President has all the power in our system. When you do not have the ability to listen, share the will, open up, you will hardly be lost.
So the president does not listen or share?
Precisely the circumstances in which I left it prove to be saturated. I did not ask the sea to drink, but only to preserve the people's interest.
And you believe that you are more defending the interests of the people than the president?
It's not a matter of weight. I want to keep up with the facts. The facts were; I had my gratitude, she was also appreciated. I think it is a people's interest, but I can believe it as a citizen and a politician.
The facts are that they resigned because we gave the Total block. What happened?
By the way, it is more complicated than it is. The end of the story is that there may have been one month of tensions between the executive and myself, the minister, in a number of cases including Total's deal, a straw that broke the camel's back. It could have been a week before, on another question, for example, to accept the question of the terms in which Timis left the block. So it is a different view of a number of things that made it impossible to live together.
In fact, the offer of Total, as it was formulated, was much less interesting. Total was 5thcompared to Bp, Kosmos and others who were there. The offer structure was much less attractive and even a step back to the contracts signed in 2011, 2009, 2004, even before the oil finds. So, when it comes to gas and oil producers soon, we must say that the remaining obstacles must be negotiated with much more attractive classification. If we have to give up, we must not sell to the worst or worse conditions than before the findings. And so I ask you to compare it because the contracts are on the board's website.
You blame the president for selling the resources of the country?
Once again these are unquestionable and intangible facts. Feel free to take the elements. Senegal's problem is precisely to limit the question to Thierno Salli and Macky Salli. What I told you is simple: I was given the right to refuse to sign a contract that was considerably cheaper than the agreements that existed and existed for a long time. I refuse, the President signed it, the Prime Minister objected to it. All this can make a conclusion. Bring intellectuals, at least some intellectuals, give quick lessons, come to the facts. I have also heard that some of the left-wing says that we have to stop the debate, speculate, even if they are heavily pregnant helped to previous systems a lot less important issues. People need to take the time to negotiate both agreements. It is simply and easily written in French. See Section 22 of the Petrotim Agreement, Far Limited, on the Sangomar section and look at Article 22 of the Agreement signed with Total, you see a difference. It is a Cem2 class math. It is not about oil or gas; it concerns the division of production. How much does Senegal win? how many others win. By comparing bids, we can see that the endorsed bid was far from much better deals. And besides, the story makes me right because Total shared it so, sold 30% to Petronas. So they said. We are a potential oil producer and everything is going on. We do not have to refer to the circumstances of the time when we were not attractive. But if we follow the code currently in force, if we have to sell, sell at least the same conditions. It is not a ministry problem. It is a liability issue. Everyone is responsible to the Senegalese, before God and men.
Did you mention the exit conditions of Timis, which could have been your departure immediately, what happened to Timis?
Initially, this was a controversy in the assessment of the situation in which Timis remained in our country, on completely inviolable terms. It has now become apparent that the conditions Timis has arrived are between the two rounds of presidential elections. Timis has benefited from an agreement that may have been delayed since it was signed in March 2012 but is dated on 17 January 2012, although Petrotim was created on 19 January 2012 two days later.
You said that Timis's case is more outrageous than the Total case …
The press has made people jump into the report of the Directorate-General for Finance, which I did not know when I was a minister. It is clear that Petrotim benefited from the 2012 agreement signed between the two rounds, but late on 17 January 2012. It has been established that Petrotim was set up on 19 January. So when we signed the deal, Petrotim did not exist. It is clear that his parents Petrotim and Petroasia had just been born and had no technical capacity or economic potential. The report was very clearly stated. But at that time I did not have all the elements. I got an idea of the situation by looking at the Timis file and watching Timis work for a year and a half. If you have not invested anything and would like to go under the conditions in which he ticks timbale, I felt something to be unacceptable. Even if we are a poor country, we want our oil, our deposits have been used by those who have actually made investments by doing real tasks to find oil or gas, and not fictitious companies that have come to economic speculation.
The authorities are familiar with it; as Chief of State, whose President I have spoken, is from September 2012. And Petrotim öljyynsä continued until 2017. And Timis wanted to go out in circumstances that could justify expressions of confidentiality that he would like to retire afterwards. These are the economic conditions that should be known in Senegal. The state must be asked to disclose the circumstances in which Petrotim was driven.
As a former minister, you know these terms. Why not reveal them?
I know that I do not accept these terms as ministers. These actions are not confidential. The agreement, financial terms, the financial obligations of each party, are recorded. When someone has withdrawn his or her obligations to the state or other parties, its potential benefits … must justify the achievements and commitments of this company in a solid and indisputable way. But Timis would not have benefited from the contract because it was acquired under illegal circumstances. In order to eliminate the removal of important timbal, I feel that it is not in Senegal's interest. Therefore, approval in April was denied because, under the circumstances of the company, only the minister can accept. It's not a president, not to mention anyone else. However, we must follow the next law so that we can lift the ministry's blocking capacity. (Laughter)
Talk to Timbal when Timis left. How much is he?
It should normally be public. There is no confidentiality clause. The Senegalese must investigate. Because many say that we do not know, it is time for those who know and are responsible for saying what it is.
You obviously know what?
I have information. I give them when time comes. I have always said that we need to establish a parliamentary committee of inquiry, whose citizens petition. Those who say that we do not know, or that nothing has happened, in good faith or in a bad sense that they stop saying it and that the national representative or prosecutor adopts the question. It's time. It's not about election. Its purpose is to defend Senegal's interests in all circumstances and at all times. We have to fight.
At the height of the Timis case, you were the minister. Did you lay down the same principles and positions?
At that time, and I am pleased to say it in August 2016, one after another of the interviews that I did with my colleagues Oumar Gninguen, Rts, Baye Oumar Gueye (South Fm), and shortly before, TFM nne, "in matters" (Mamoudou Ibra Kane) with, say in fact, if I were to be told that there are reasons to question these agreements. It has always been my point of view. At this point, it is also possible for each Senegal to check. Something else, in February 2016, in the "Les Affaires de la Cité" program I mentioned the intangible principle. I said that the implementation of an apparently unlawful order, even the army, must be involved. So here are the lines that I've always relied on. Now I could not assume what I did not know or knew at the time. When I heard the main officials around me, some of whom were arrested by a State Inspector, they said they did not know. Or they told me brave deceptions about Petrot's question. No one ever told me that at that time Tullow Oil had appealed to the Minister of Energy on the question of why Petrotim had an agreement, while even negotiating. No one told me that he heard the word because there are doubts about it. Never … Just when the problem started to emerge and the former Prime Minister (Abdoul Mbaye) said he was given the opportunity to sign the wrong information that I was attached to it and that I started doing research on my own. And until I left the board, believe me, I did not know that the words had passed. For the first time, I heard it being through the press.
Do you blame some of the former employees for loyalty?
In any case, I may have been asked to take the steps I have to answer today, but in good faith I thought it was because I was not given the correct information.
If you had the right information, what would you have done?
What did I do …
That is obvious. It is certain that no one can say that I have the responsibility of Petrotim. Because it was a great stumbling block throughout March and April (2017), and this is the main reason for divorce. The truth is, if I can say that, the smoke-free mask covers the real cause.
Prime Minister, former boss, speaks about incompetence ….
It makes me smile … there are comments that do not deserve the answer. I can say that I am an international civil aviation inspector. I checked some of the largest countries in the world in civil aviation in Asia and Europe. All my peers who know me in civil aviation respect me. And when you have designed Macky Allow to power, I made a modest contribution, but I'm still involved. Unlike other under the heavens, when they were the closest friends of Macky Sallin.
Do you speak to a Prime Minister who was out of Senegal?
(Silence). I leave it to the Senegalese to appreciate the rest … But basically, the cause of divorce is not such aspects, but our disagreement over how to maintain the land. And again, our state system does believe that the head of state is almost divine power and that no one should not disobey him, not respond to him or disagree with him. In the United States, the former Foreign Secretary did not last because of the disagreement with President Trump. In England, since the Prime Minister was there, how many flights have been left? In France, it is about Nicolas Hulot. In this world, everyone answers first to God, his conscience and laws, and then to men, whatever their attributes. Refugees, as often said here behind the President of the Republic, say that he was the one who asked me to do it is no longer acceptable.
When the authorities sell the resources of the country, then is not a bet at the top?
There are lawyers who speak. After lawyers, people appreciate it.